tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-367019700923216960.post4130795008967863329..comments2024-01-17T13:19:24.071-06:00Comments on Salvation And Survival: Unclear Message Regarding Missing Mexican Radioactive Waste Pam Kohlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00678673505358164380noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-367019700923216960.post-52318500549194147102013-12-12T16:21:32.436-06:002013-12-12T16:21:32.436-06:00Well, I was hoping that someone would convince me ...Well, I was hoping that someone would convince me that my skepticism and concern weren't necessary ... that I was blowing things out of proportion. But I trust your information and expertise, so now it's time to really stay alert and keep an eye on this story. My worry is this: it seems to have fallen off the radar of the reporting agencies, which gives the authorities an excuse to slack off their investigation. Makes me think they are just crossing their fingers that nothing serious happens.Pam Kohlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678673505358164380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-367019700923216960.post-66338717073070133222013-12-11T21:30:16.601-06:002013-12-11T21:30:16.601-06:00I also think we should be worried about something ...I also think we should be worried about something else: pulverized Co-60 spread by a fanatic willing to clandestinely spread it over an area where a lot of people come an go could be a slow-acting "poison" that would slowly but seriously accumulate over time to kill or sicken many, many people before they figured out what was going on. Imagine the track area at a subway stop where people get on and off the train at a very busy place. How often is the junk along the track cleaned up? Especially if it's just 'dust'? But a lot of people stand next to the edge waiting for their train. And a lot of people are standing in the cars that are stopped for getting on and off. Nobody would notice their exposure in a day, a week, or maybe even a month. But after a few months, you could see a lot of folks who use/wait at that subway stop getting flu-like symptoms, blood disorders, and other maladies that weren't explainable by the usual colds or infections. And in more time, there would be a lot of unexplainable deaths…with more coming because the powder was still there and undetected. You can't really see, smell or taste "radiation." Or maybe this source has left in its original finger-sized shape and just stuck into a small space in the roof or under a bench of a bus or subway car? Anybody in that bus or car will get some severe radiation exposure without ever knowing it. A rush-hour group of people in a subway could get a lethal exposure dose in just one ride, but not show signs of radiation poisoning for a few days. A European tourist could visit New York, ride the subway, and not show up at their local hospital in a bad way for a week. How many people will be standing in Times Square for New Years? That little metal tube thingy in the gutter isn't just something that fell off a taxi's undercarriage. Scary stuff.<br />In short, this Co-60 source needs to be found, and anybody who was near it needs to be treated for dangerous radiation exposure. I hope we hear some good news soon.<br />I don't want to start a rush, but one of those portable radiation monitors could give an early warning. I don't have one, but I don't frequent areas that are likely targets. And anybody thinking they need iodine tablets shouldn't bother. Co-60 is gamma radiation. Keeping radioactive iodine from accumulating in the thyroid gland is to limit alpha-radiation, which is whole different (and long) topic of discussion.GreenEyedJinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00995782316684453263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-367019700923216960.post-44537619964834486052013-12-11T21:29:40.322-06:002013-12-11T21:29:40.322-06:00Construction inspection sources like this give off...Construction inspection sources like this give off levels of gamma radiation that interact with humans measured in "REM" - Roentgen equivalent man. Anything more than 5 Rem of exposure per year is of medical concern. A chest x-ray is in the range of 100 mRem = .1 Rem (mRem is a thousandth of a Rem). So if you get more than 50 chest x-rays in a year, you should talk to your doctor. Most x-rays are focussed on arms, legs, or the head -- not too much concern because they are away from major organs (and no, the brain isn't badly influenced by moderate radiation exposure). Flying across the USA in an air plane will give a person a gamma exposure from solar radiation of about 50 to 100 mRem (one bonus for the Red Eye flight since there's no sunshine!). More than 30 Rem in a month can be health threatening (do you fly coast-to-coast every day?). A C0-60 source will give of gamma levels in the HUNDREDS of Rem levels per hour. So, a human could suffer dangerous exposure by being near an open source like this in MINUTES. And repeated exposure will add up to even more dangerous levels.<br />So, after this story first broke, and then the report of the containment box being found empty came out, I figured we would see another story in a few days about people dying from radiation exposure. But that hasn't happened. And like you, I've been waiting.<br />I think it's prudent to be concerned about a dirty bomb in this case. If the Co-60 source was pulverized into powder, and then "blown up" by a bomb, it could contaminate a pretty large area with very radioactive material. Sure, the amount of radiation given off by bits of powdered Co-60 is lower than the full source, but if it's powder that's in hair or clothing, it can add up quickly. GreenEyedJinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00995782316684453263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-367019700923216960.post-73484653979740961272013-12-11T21:27:30.217-06:002013-12-11T21:27:30.217-06:00Hi, it's been a while since I've chimed in...Hi, it's been a while since I've chimed in, but this is a topic where I know something a least a little bit interesting.<br />Yup, this story is very, very intriguing. When I first read about it, I saw that it dealt with Cobalt-60. Your discussion of how iron molecules are activated in a neutron flux is right -- and submariners know this radio-isotype because certain materials we use are susceptible to activation as Co-60 in the reactors that power our boats. Co-60 gives off very high energy gamma radiation, which is highly penetrating and very dangerous to human tissue. We have occasional areas where corrosion products - essentially rust - can collect in pipe bends and create what we call "hot spots" where the amount of Co-60 in those spots can make radiation levels very dangerous to extended human exposure.<br />Co-60 has a half-life of about 5.2 years, meaning that it reduces the amount of emitted radiation by one-half every 5.2 years. For a radio-isotope to go to essentially zero, we use a thumb-rule of 5 half-lives before we say it's all decayed away. For Co-60, that's 25+ years! The only 'good' thing here is that Co-60 isn't soluble in water, and it doesn't easily bond with anything else. In other words, once you find it, you can clean it up fairly easily. It doesn't dissolve and spread through a water table and it doesn't 'stick' to much. But if you are near it for too long and unshielded, it WILL kill you eventually. Your choice is to maximize your shielding, minimize your exposure time, or maximize your distance (ask anybody who works with nuclear materials about "Time, Distance, Shielding" and they'll instantly know you're talking how to stay safe from radiation exposure).<br />There is a near-legendary story about a radioactive source used for x-raying construction welds was accidentally lost and brought home by children of a Mexican family. This would have been >30 years ago. In short, almost all the family members died due to radiation exposure. The radioactive gamma source was so strong that it turned the family's crystal glasses dark by interacting with lead (Pb) in the glass. I remember only the father survived, and only because he was out of the house at work while the mom, grand mom and kids were at home. Radioactive sources are VERY dangerous because of the very large amounts of gamma radiation they give off. Most medical sources are much safer, because they use specific electrical stimulation to give off a narrow stream of radiation only when power is applied. Your average medical x-ray is actually very safe and limited in the amount of radiation it gives off. But prolonged exposure to an energized medical source should be avoided (that's why the technician stands behind their special partition - it's usually got a layer of lead metal lining). Weld inspection sources are MUCH stronger and don't need electrical power applied to make them work. We used them for inspection x-rays of submarine hull welds and it was a BIG deal to make sure everybody was nowhere near when the source was out of its containment box - usually a very heavy, lead-lined 'coffin' that stopped the gamma radiation from getting out except for a small door that was opened to allow the gamma radiation to stream out, pass through the weld and be imaged by a large film sheet.GreenEyedJinnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00995782316684453263noreply@blogger.com